[MB] Moving this list to a forum?

[Helen Evans]

Hi there everyone
I was wondering if you'd be interested in moving this mailing list to a
forum. There seem to have been some problems lately with joining and
leaving the list, as well as the archives going missing, and while I don't
want to shanghai the list and/or step on anyone's toes, I'd hate for the
list use to dwindle because of technical problems.

So now that there's such easy technology... I've gone ahead and thrown
together a forum that you can check out, if you're interested; please let
me know what you think. The site seems very easy to use, and this way we
wouldn't have to hunt through archives for older stuff, it's all right
there.

http://modestyblaise.forumotion.net/forum.htm

Right now it's set up that you don't have to register or be a member,
although security options can be changed.

..thoughts, comments?

Cheers!
Helen

http://modestyblaise.greboguru.org/

[Alex Frazer-Harrison]

Hi Helen

I would certainly support this going to a forum format. One problem I've
encountered (it may even happen with this e-mail) is having messages not go
through because of formatting issues. Plus, anyone who hits "reply"
generally just ends up sending e-mail to the person who sent the message and
not to the group. I've received numerous replies to posts I've made that
were clearly intended for the group but ended up just going to me. I think
there's probably been quite a bit of one-sided conversations as a result.

I like the forum idea - including the fact we can set up different
discussion topics, keep track of who is talking about what, etc. At the same
time forum pages aren't as likely to be suddenly deleted (the way Yahoo
Groups deleted the Modesty Blaise discussion group a few years ago). And I'm
sure everyone appreciates having fewer e-mails to contend with. Count me in!

Cheers!

Alex

Post by Helen Evans
Hi there everyone
I was wondering if you'd be interested in moving this mailing list to a
forum. There seem to have been some problems lately with joining and
leaving the list, as well as the archives going missing, and while I don't
want to shanghai the list and/or step on anyone's toes, I'd hate for the
list use to dwindle because of technical problems.
So now that there's such easy technology... I've gone ahead and thrown
together a forum that you can check out, if you're interested; please let
me know what you think. The site seems very easy to use, and this way we
wouldn't have to hunt through archives for older stuff, it's all right
there.
http://modestyblaise.forumotion.net/forum.htm
Right now it's set up that you don't have to register or be a member,
although security options can be changed.
...thoughts, comments?
Cheers!
Helen
http://modestyblaise.greboguru.org/

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

Hi Helen,

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 11:50:55 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Helen Evans
I was wondering if you'd be interested in moving this mailing list to
a forum.

Personally -- I prefer the mailing list (which probalby also dates me).
But additionally this list is hosted by an MB fan at an university site
where Thomas (said fan) is probably on a permanent position --
therefore this list should have some long-time support unlike yahoo and
any other free hosting service which have a tendency to go in and out
of business -- or change their business model -- rather quickly.

Post by Helen Evans
There seem to have been some problems lately with joining and
leaving the list, as well as the archives going missing, and while I

Hm... personally I've not experienced problems with sending messages,
or (un)subscribing. Archives are indeed not working properly right now
-- I can login and see a list of monthly archives. But all links (by
thread, author,...) are dead, only the gzipped-archive download works.
But those *do* contain messages back till 2000.
you can find the whole thing here (~1MB), 2000 till today:
http://khherrmann.de/MB/mb_archive.zip

I would like to give Thomas some time to react to these problems or
requests -- he might be on vacation or plain busy.

For posting problems remember: no html, no attachements -- if you can
choose a color or font size its html. Also you *have* to send with the
same From-adress as you subscribed with.

Post by Helen Evans
don't want to shanghai the list and/or step on anyone's toes, I'd
hate for the list use to dwindle because of technical problems.

Well -- Forum and mailing list are two different media in any case --
go ahead with the forum. I might even peak in from time to time :-)
Depending on the available forum features it might offer a place for
pic exchange again which has gone missing with the mysterious death of
the yahoo group.


K.-H.

[P Woods, Client Services]

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
Personally -- I prefer the mailing list

For what it's worth, I agree.

I used to subscribe to a work-related mailing list that transmogrified into
a forum. I hardly ever see it now, even though it's well arranged as
forums go. I don't have the convenience of having new items pop in my
mailbox, to be bought to my attention. It's a real effort to seek out and
delve the forum.

No, my vote is to keep the long-standing list.

wudzi

*************************************************************
Paul Woods,
Faculty Librarian (Social Sciences & Law),
University of Bristol Information Services,
Arts & Social Sciences Library,
Tyndall Avenue,
Bristol BS8 1TJ.

Tel.: [phone] (ext.) 88029 (int.) Fax: [phone]
E-mail: ***@bris.ac.uk
Home Page: http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~lipw/paulhome.htm

"What we become depends on what we read after all of the
professors have finished with us. The greatest university
of all is a collection of books." - Thomas Carlyle

************************************************************

[Diane Wirth]

Hi Helen,

Thanks for creating the forum. I have a question:

Could we sign up to get email alerts whenever something new is posted to the forum?

I think I might be willing to switch if that were the case. My problem with a forum is, at the end of the day, I simply forget to check them and they fall off my radar.

This is a super low traffic list, but my favorite list all the same :-). I would hate to miss anything because I'm not in the habit of checking forums.

Thanks!
Diane

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:04:13 -0700 (PDT)

yeah, I really didn't want to step on Thomas' toes; the problem is
that the last few times I've tried to contact him, I haven't heard
back, so I wasn't sure if he was still administering the list or
perhaps just didn't have the time for it? I agree with all your
points and do like the list too; and I didn't realize there was a
working archive - I had searched but only got error messages when
trying to view any messages. Also I know a few people were frustrated
wtih not being able to join (or leave!) the list.
Hm, not sure what to do now as I've put up a forum and a few people
seem enthused - it would be great if Thomas could answer.
Does he tend to answer you when you email?

I didn't try in years. Some years back he usully reacted to mails, also
on list posts. While tracking down the archives I found there are many
more lists on the same host -- some of which are managed by thomas as
well -- but it is also not his "private" server.

An interesting thing is, that on the overview:
http://ifi-lists.uio.no/mailman/listinfo/

the mb-list is not listed while other comic related lists managed by
thomas are (amazone-dialog, xenaphiles,..). There is also an E-mail
address for an admin at the computer science institute this server
belongs to -- but I'm reluctant to wake sleeping dogs.

If you want to try contacting him again maybe CC ***@ifi.uio.no as
well as mb-***@ifi.uio.no -- that should reach him directly even if
he is not looking into mailinglist posts.



K.-H.

[Kent Hedlundh]

I'd definitely vote for the list. I never read forums and will probably never
do, either. Just plain time consuming, unlike emails....
That probably dates me too :-)

Cheers,
Kent

[Gretchen Kopmanis]

If someone is taking count of the votes, then count me down for the
mail group. I really dislike forums. There's too much 'poking about'
to see what I want to see.

Sadly, I have to admit, that if this list goes into a forum, I would
probably drop it. I simply don't have time to do that much searching
in different "rooms" in a forum to see what folks are saying. I'm a
big Harry Potter fan and the reason I don't participate is because
everything is in forum mode. Frankly, they do need it, but there
simply isn't enough chatter on this particular list to make a forum
worth while, IMO.

Just my .02 cents.....
-gkk



On Sep 24, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Helen Evans wrote:

Hi there everyone
I was wondering if you'd be interested in moving this mailing list to a
forum. There seem to have been some problems lately with joining and
leaving the list, as well as the archives going missing, and while I
don't
want to shanghai the list and/or step on anyone's toes, I'd hate for the
list use to dwindle because of technical problems.

So now that there's such easy technology... I've gone ahead and thrown
together a forum that you can check out, if you're interested; please
let
me know what you think. The site seems very easy to use, and this way we
wouldn't have to hunt through archives for older stuff, it's all right
there.

http://modestyblaise.forumotion.net/forum.htm

Right now it's set up that you don't have to register or be a member,
although security options can be changed.

..thoughts, comments?

Cheers!
Helen

http://modestyblaise.greboguru.org/

[Stray Taoist]

Post by Gretchen Kopmanis
If someone is taking count of the votes, then count me down for the
mail group. I really dislike forums. There's too much 'poking about'
to see what I want to see.
Sadly, I have to admit, that if this list goes into a forum, I would
probably drop it. I simply don't have time to do that much searching
in different "rooms" in a forum to see what folks are saying. I'm a
big Harry Potter fan and the reason I don't participate is because
everything is in forum mode. Frankly, they do need it, but there
simply isn't enough chatter on this particular list to make a forum
worth while, IMO.

I entirely agree. (And, as was said earlier, probably dates me.) I have to
manually fire up a browser if I want to look at something, but always have a
terminal with my mail in it open. Which leads me to HTML-only emails. Don't
do it, kids, as I for one won't see it (regardless of whatever RFCs it breaks
as well...) I use mutt, so the mailing list works for me. But I am not your
target demographic if you are talking about browser-based stuff :)

m.

[Kev]

Hi all

Why does it have to be either / or?

In the great tradition of open source software, let there be a list for
those that prefer it, and let there be a forum for those that prefer it.
If only one flourishes then so be it. If they both flourish then
everyone benefits.

Kevin

[Terry Pearson]

One of the original Brian Eno Oblique Strategies I believe - Faced with
a choice, do both. I can even bring that on topic by pointing out that
Willie solves a problem for Modesty in the same way when she can't
decide between the cottage at Benildon or the penthouse...

Post by Kev
Hi all
Why does it have to be either / or?
In the great tradition of open source software, let there be a list
for those that prefer it, and let there be a forum for those that
prefer it. If only one flourishes then so be it. If they both
flourish then everyone benefits.
Kevin

[Tikkanen Mika]

Hi

I have to agree with Kevin. It is 2 very different ways to communicate.
For me the list is more personal and direct than a forum which in turn
offers more possibilities to organize the topics to be found quickly and
easy.
I suppose for some it might be either this or that but why not have them
both.

Mika
-----Original Message-----
From: mb-***@ifi.uio.no [mailto:mb-***@ifi.uio.no] On Behalf Of Kev
Sent: donderdag 25 september 2008 11:43
To: ***@ifi.uio.no
Subject: Re: [MB] Moving this list to a forum?

Hi all

Why does it have to be either / or?

In the great tradition of open source software, let there be a list for
those that prefer it, and let there be a forum for those that prefer it.

If only one flourishes then so be it. If they both flourish then
everyone benefits.

Kevin

[Stray Taoist]

Post by Tikkanen Mika
Hi
I have to agree with Kevin. It is 2 very different ways to communicate.
For me the list is more personal and direct than a forum which in turn
offers more possibilities to organize the topics to be found quickly and
easy.
I suppose for some it might be either this or that but why not have them
both.

Because by having both you will kill one or the other. Divide and rule. In
the worst case scenario.

If people start using the forum more and more, and the list less and less, I
will be excluded. As you will get people who won't want to use (or can't use)
both, and they make their choice.

We live in information-overload these days, and this adds to that.

For me the formats are different, and distinct. Fora is a get on my part,
whereas the list is a push to me. As most people have their mail open, but
the forum requires a log in and check the topics to see what has changed.

But again, I am probably not the target demographic, except as this is a MB
list, I would like to be still in on the chat. It isn't as if they list is
high volume. Yes, the reply-to headers are set up wrong, which could be
easily fixed by an admin I am guessing.

Plus, it is depressing to log in to a forum and see no activity. Do we have
enough members to keep an active forum going? Given that a few have expressed
no interest in joining it?

m.

[Alex Frazer-Harrison]

Hi all

Post by Stray Taoist
Because by having both you will kill one or the other. Divide and rule. In
the worst case scenario.
If people start using the forum more and more, and the list less and less, I
will be excluded. As you will get people who won't want to use (or can't use)
both, and they make their choice.

There are many fan communities that thrive fine with multiple methods of
communication. For example, Doctor Who fans have Yahoo Groups, online
forums, Facebook groups, etc ... They do fine. Granted, MB is more of a
niche.

The problem I have with the current system is it's not consistent nor is it
100% reliable. I've missed messages and I've had replies simply not go out
simply because of the way the group is set up. And there's the whole issue
of replying. I had to manually change the address on this e-mail so that it
didn't just go to Stray Taoist. I've often had to forward replies sent to me
by others that only came to me... And sometimes those forwards haven't gone
through, so I've dropped the conversation.

People's e-mails are also getting very cluttered with spam and other matter.
I moderate 3 Yahoo Groups and have gotten a growing number of people asking
for "no e-mail" options - they just want to read the messages on a webpage.
Not that this group is particularly huge in its activity (except this week!)
but if you happen to belong to 5 or 6 or more similar groups (as many do),
plus you add in things like Facebook notifications, Wikipedia notifications,
etc etc ... It really adds up.

I'm not going to belabor the point as to whether an online forum or an
e-mail list is better - it's not that big a deal to me and if this comes
down to a vote it won't affect me one way or the other, I'm good. But if we
do stick with the e-mail format, some improvements to the system need to be
made, including better access to message archives. To my knowledge no such
archive exists for this group -- if one does, perhaps a link could be posted
as I bet a lot of folks don't know about it. There's also an issue with
certain e-mail formats being rejected by the system - I wasn't able to post
to the group for about 2 months until I figured out what was causing it.

My recommendation would be to move to a more formalized system to some
degree, if not to a full out forum. I'm annoyed with Yahoo Groups because
they deleted the MB group there without explanation, though the fact people
were uploading copyrighted material probably had something to do with it per
their terms of service. But their system (and similar ones offered by MSN
Groups and others) I believe gives us the best of both worlds. Those who
want to receive the e-mails can choose to continue to do so, while those who
want to only access these messages online -- or who want to look back at
older discussions - can do so as well. In other words, they offer an e-mail
list/forum hybrid that I think appeals to both.

A formalized e-mail group would also help preserve privacy. Not everyone
wants their e-mail addresses circulated. A Yahoo/MSN group would avoid that
by having, for example, all e-mails sent to something like
***@yahoogroups.com or whatever.

Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the group,
expanding the fanbase.

I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use forums. It's
just another website.

Cheers!

Alex

[Stray Taoist]

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
A formalized e-mail group would also help preserve privacy. Not everyone
wants their e-mail addresses circulated. A Yahoo/MSN group would avoid that
by having, for example, all e-mails sent to something like

I would be be someone (I don't mind doing it) registering a new domain, and
controlling the list from there (ad free, no need to use yahoo et al, I have
ran lists using various mailing software for years, have written some
myself...) Plus it would be totally private, no outside spam, subscribers
only, and lots of us could be admins.

The headers issue is easy, though. *If* we had access to the box.

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the group,
expanding the fanbase.

This is true, and a benefit over the list being hosted on someone's server.

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use forums. It's
just another website.

And that is the point! I rarely use a browser. But I a m a grumpy old
reactionary coder.

m.

[Helen Evans]

Gosh, so many great points, I'm not even sure which way I'm leaning.
(Just to clarify: I knocked together a working forum so that people could
see what it might look like, not to try to 'steal' list people over before
we'd come to any concencus).

Pros and cons to both.
I agree that a 'con' for the forum is that it's Yet Another Website to go
to, and this risks losing people. Definitely don't want to lose anyone.

The main 'pros' I see are the visibility and usability: it's so easy to
view *everything* – what's current, what discussions have gone on in the
past; in addition, you can search by usename, keyword, etc. My writing
group uses a forum, and the searchability is such a plus – if someone
answered a question or recommended a book and I want to reread their old
post, it's so easy to FIND.

Pros for the mailing list – the messages come straight to you. (I do
actually prefer emails).
Con: I find it can be really hard to follow a thread as people will often
(accidentally?) quote the 4 messages that have already come before, and
I'm wading through a long email trying to figure out whether it's just the
top part that's new. I do find forum threads much easier to read.

Also, re: the archives: I didn't know until Karl told us that there was a
working archive anywhere. I'd sent out a message back in summer to ask if
anyone knew what was up with the archives – it was one of the few MB
emails that got NO responses, which really surprised me! (I thought there
might be other people mourning the loss of the archives/)
http://khherrmann.de/MB/mb_archive.zip
Um, I have to say though Karl, I find the zip file difficult to use. And
again, back to the visibility/searchability issue.

Post by Kev
In the great tradition of open source software, let there be a list for

those that prefer it, and let there be a forum for those that prefer it.
If only one flourishes then so be it. If they both flourish then
everyone benefits.
Possibly... although I share the concern of whoever suggested that if we
'divide', we lose. My feeling is that the group is too small to risk
dividing. But would more people use a forum if we had the option to
receive emails of any/all new postings? (Then from your email, you would
just follow the link. One extra click.) Or are you dead set against it?
Sounds like a lot of people find forums too much 'work', in that you have
to go looking... would email notifications not solve this problem?

Post by Kev
you log on to the forum hit that one button and you see a list of all

posts you haven't read. Its brilliant and saves any messing about
trying to find posts you might have missed.
I didn't go into a great deal of technical research with this particular
forum site; I picked it because the forum is hosted right there, rather
than downloading all the software, add-ons etc and then having to set it
up on your own hosting etc. So yes, there may be better ones out there, or
better methods… those who are more technically savvy than me can provide
input! (Also, I wouldn't have to be the admin; more than happy for those
more technically savvy to take over)

Post by Kev
Plus, it is depressing to log in to a forum and see no activity. Do we

have enough members to keep an active forum going?
Well, I was hoping a forum might draw in more people… I was shocked when a
colleague told me that most people under the age of 30 barely use email
any more, it's all Facebook, MySpace, etc. (Imagine my dismay to learn
that email is 'old school'!)

Post by Kev
But if we do stick with the e-mail format, some improvements to the

system need to be made, including better access to message archives

Post by Kev
I would like to give Thomas some time to react to these problems or

requests -- he might be on vacation or plain busy.
I'd love to hear from Thomas too, especially about whether it's possible
to fix these things…

What I'd like to do now is post a poll, and I'm *not* doing this to plug
the forum! – as I said, I'm not decided either way, just thought I'd put
it out there. And I also would not be the decision-maker, this is most
definitely a group discussion (and hopefully Thomas will pop in with his
more-than-two cents). But if you could go to the poll, that would be great
because it will give us a quick count. (even if you go just to there to
say 'I hate forums', you need never go there again, LOL)
It's under 'Q&A about this Forum':
http://modestyblaise.forumotion.net/qa-on-using-this-forum-f1/poll-forum-or-mailing-list-or-both-t5.htm#15

thanks so much!
Helen

[Stray Taoist]

Pros for the mailing list – the messages come straight to you. (I do
actually prefer emails).
Con: I find it can be really hard to follow a thread as people will often
(accidentally?) quote the 4 messages that have already come before, and
I'm wading through a long email trying to figure out whether it's just the
top part that's new. I do find forum threads much easier to read.

The problem of threaded conversations is the same in fora as in email,
if people top post, mis-quote, or any of the other faux-pas that so
rile the OCD net contingent, you have the same issue. Hard-to-read
replies.

Post by Kev
In the great tradition of open source software, let there be a list for

those that prefer it, and let there be a forum for those that prefer it.
If only one flourishes then so be it. If they both flourish then
everyone benefits.
Possibly... although I share the concern of whoever suggested that if we
'divide', we lose. My feeling is that the group is too small to risk
dividing. But would more people use a forum if we had the option to
receive emails of any/all new postings? (Then from your email, you would
just follow the link. One extra click.) Or are you dead set against it?
Sounds like a lot of people find forums too much 'work', in that you have
to go looking... would email notifications not solve this problem?

Unless I can post back to the forum via email, the extra link might
make me read it (I can do so from the command line), but certainly not
participate. And, then, we have the issue of *another* site to log in
to. Another password, another entry in my keypassX.

Post by Kev
you log on to the forum hit that one button and you see a list of all

posts you haven't read. Its brilliant and saves any messing about
trying to find posts you might have missed.
I didn't go into a great deal of technical research with this
particular
forum site; I picked it because the forum is hosted right there, rather
than downloading all the software, add-ons etc and then having to set it
up on your own hosting etc. So yes, there may be better ones out there, or
better methods… those who are more technically savvy than me can
provide
input! (Also, I wouldn't have to be the admin; more than happy for those
more technically savvy to take over)

If you are wanting to have a forum running somewhere, I re-recommend
its own domain, with SEO and all. (I note that thekongo.co.uk is free,
as is cobratrap.com/.co.uk and even atasteformodesty.com and on and on
and on. Someone will provide a better pun than me, no doubt.)

Post by Kev
Plus, it is depressing to log in to a forum and see no activity. Do we

have enough members to keep an active forum going?
Well, I was hoping a forum might draw in more people… I was shocked
when a
colleague told me that most people under the age of 30 barely use email
any more, it's all Facebook, MySpace, etc. (Imagine my dismay to learn
that email is 'old school'!)

I doubt that. Email is still the most traffic on the old interwebs.
But then again, I am old skool, and not Down With The Kids. I do have
facebook/myspace, though.

What I'd like to do now is post a poll, and I'm *not* doing this to plug
the forum! – as I said, I'm not decided either way, just thought I'd
put
it out there. And I also would not be the decision-maker, this is most
definitely a group discussion (and hopefully Thomas will pop in with his
more-than-two cents). But if you could go to the poll, that would be great
because it will give us a quick count. (even if you go just to there to
say 'I hate forums', you need never go there again, LOL)
http://modestyblaise.forumotion.net/qa-on-using-this-forum-f1/poll-forum-or-mailing-list-or-both-t5.htm#15

Ah, and you have to register to enter the poll, and so the vicious
circle continues :)

m.

--
http://weblog.straytoaster.co.uk/ # Gotta have a weblog. It is the law.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/straytoaster # All the cool kids have
photostreams
http://www.myspace.com/thirtyspokes # talent not included

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

Hi Helen,

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 11:35:18 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Helen Evans
Pros for the mailing list – the messages come straight to you. (I do
actually prefer emails).
Con: I find it can be really hard to follow a thread as people will
often (accidentally?) quote the 4 messages that have already come
before, and I'm wading through a long email trying to figure out
whether it's just the top part that's new. I do find forum threads
much easier to read.

Well -- good netizens (as in netiquette) would neither top post nor
quote irrelevant parts of former mails. There were times ther were no
forums -- or html for that matter. There were usenet newsgroups -- some
of them enforcing a prettty stiff rule on netiquette. But the rules
established then, and some discipline in writing posts *IS* a good thing.

Post by Helen Evans
Also, re: the archives: I didn't know until Karl told us that there
was a working archive anywhere. I'd sent out a message back in summer

err... I t took some digging. At least my login is working. You'll need
a password which you can let the list-software mail back to you if you
forgot.

Post by Helen Evans
to ask if anyone knew what was up with the archives – it was one of
the few MB emails that got NO responses, which really surprised me!
(I thought there might be other people mourning the loss of the
archives/)

not really -- I also remember answering one archive request with
sending a private mail of my local archive from 2004 till now.

Post by Helen Evans
http://khherrmann.de/MB/mb_archive.zip
Um, I have to say though Karl, I find the zip file difficult to use.
And again, back to the visibility/searchability issue.

Well -- its just grabbed from the website. There its sorted in txt.gz
for each month, containing all mails of that month in "mbox" format,
i.e. mail after mail in one text-file.
These txt.gz are bunched together in that zip.

What I would do if I wanted to really read these is:
- unpack zip
- unpack all txt.gz
- copy all txt files into one huge text file
- read that text file which is still mbox format into a mailer which understands mbox

and voila you've got an archive with threading, sorting, search by
subject, search full text,... back to 2000.

I would be willing to produce that big mbox file if that would help you
(or anybody else). I could even separate them (mdir or mh style) into
single files each one mail into one directory. But that would probably
blow this up to a few thousand mails or files.


K.-H.

[Stray Taoist]

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
and voila you've got an archive with threading, sorting, search by
subject, search full text,... back to 2000.
I would be willing to produce that big mbox file if that would help you
(or anybody else). I could even separate them (mdir or mh style) into
single files each one mail into one directory. But that would probably
blow this up to a few thousand mails or files.

It wouldn't be hard to cobble something (there might even be
something) to turn all that into some full-text searchable database
backed website. In fact, you could have another email address that
subscribed and automagically updated that as and when it got a
message. Thereby having the search facility if needs be. (Although
isn't there an extenstion to mailman that does that? Or is it even
built in?)

I would take a stab and say that most on the list wouldn't know what
to do with mbox files. Does Outlook handle them? I would say without
checking that it wouldn't.

I use grep when searching my mail :)

m.
--
http://weblog.straytoaster.co.uk/ # Gotta have a weblog. It is the law.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/straytoaster # All the cool kids have
photostreams
http://www.myspace.com/thirtyspokes # talent not included

[Helen Evans]

Post by Stray Taoist
I would take a stab and say that most on the list wouldn't know what
to do with mbox files.

Myself included... plus, how and how often would users update them?

Post by Stray Taoist
It wouldn't be hard to cobble something (there might even be
something) to turn all that into some full-text searchable database
backed website. In fact, you could have another email address that
subscribed and automagically updated that as and when it got a
message. Thereby having the search facility if needs be. (Although
isn't there an extenstion to mailman that does that? Or is it even
built in?)

You lost me about halfway. :) But the word 'searchable' is the one that
jumps out for me... plus the idea of something centralized and web-based
(rather than each person having a huge archive file on their own machine).

Helen

[Michael Robertson]

I vote for the list.

[Kent Hedlundh]

One reason I don't like forums is that I find them hard to use,
so I'd rather put that as a con than a pro ;-)

Kent

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

Hi,


that privacy issue with Forums is a valid concern. A private,
subscriber only list is usually rather spam-free and personal
information in postings are less easy to google.

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:01:32 -0700

Post by Stray Taoist
I would be be someone (I don't mind doing it) registering a new
domain, and controlling the list from there (ad free, no need to use
yahoo et al, I have ran lists using various mailing software for

Hm.... www.modestyblaise.de is gone
as is www.modestyblaise.com
www.modestyblaise.eu
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.info
www.modestyblaise.net

www.modestyblaise.org is still free :-)

Post by Stray Taoist
years, have written some myself...) Plus it would be totally private,
no outside spam, subscribers only, and lots of us could be admins.
The headers issue is easy, though. *If* we had access to the box.

***@ifi is controlled by mailman -- the typical university setup managed by
central computer administration and one admin who can control the
mailinglist by sending e-mail to it.

If Thomas does not find the time but still would like to offer the list
it would be an option to pass on admin privileges. That would also
allow to change the Reply-To behaviour etc.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the
group, expanding the fanbase.

This is true, and a benefit over the list being hosted on someone's server.

Registering one of the modestyblaise domains (.org, .es, .nl .cc, .tv
-- no forget that last) might also atract attention. Others who are
running MB stuff on websites already might combine efforts in that
central place. Googlelogic says having a domain name equal to a search
term equals high ranking.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use
forums. It's just another website.

With the typical traffic on this list -- 1-2 mails/week, I would not
visit a forum daily. If I'm not visiting daily I'll sooner or later
visit not at all.

On the mailing list I get occasionally a mail in the MB folder and am
happy to get to read something about our favorite heroine.


A forum with optional mails would be quite helpful there. Preferably in
full text or at least From & subject of the new posting.


K.-H.


PS: Are you by any chance a fan of Bill Sienkiewicz?
if these wouldn't be this damn expensive....
http://www.billsienkiewiczart.com/gallery.asp?sc=BSST1&afs=T

[Julie Berk]

I would guess POD has www.modestyblaise.com and might not mind having a fan
area. I'll ask his son and grandson on the 11th.

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:01:32 -0700

Post by Stray Taoist
I would be be someone (I don't mind doing it) registering a new
domain, and controlling the list from there (ad free, no need to use
yahoo et al, I have ran lists using various mailing software for

Hm.... www.modestyblaise.de is gone
as is www.modestyblaise.com
www.modestyblaise.eu
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.info
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.org is still free :-)

Post by Stray Taoist
years, have written some myself...) Plus it would be totally private,
no outside spam, subscribers only, and lots of us could be admins.
The headers issue is easy, though. *If* we had access to the box.

central computer administration and one admin who can control the
mailinglist by sending e-mail to it.
If Thomas does not find the time but still would like to offer the list
it would be an option to pass on admin privileges. That would also
allow to change the Reply-To behaviour etc.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the
group, expanding the fanbase.

This is true, and a benefit over the list being hosted on someone's server.

Registering one of the modestyblaise domains (.org, .es, .nl .cc, .tv
-- no forget that last) might also atract attention. Others who are
running MB stuff on websites already might combine efforts in that
central place. Googlelogic says having a domain name equal to a search
term equals high ranking.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use
forums. It's just another website.

With the typical traffic on this list -- 1-2 mails/week, I would not
visit a forum daily. If I'm not visiting daily I'll sooner or later
visit not at all.
On the mailing list I get occasionally a mail in the MB folder and am
happy to get to read something about our favorite heroine.
A forum with optional mails would be quite helpful there. Preferably in
full text or at least From & subject of the new posting.
K.-H.
PS: Are you by any chance a fan of Bill Sienkiewicz?
if these wouldn't be this damn expensive....
http://www.billsienkiewiczart.com/gallery.asp?sc=BSST1&afs=T

[Britt Nicolaisen]

Whois Record

Registrant:
Noxe AB
Box 10419
Kungsbacka 43424
SE

Domain Name: MODESTYBLAISE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Schumacher, Hans
Noxe AB
G a Goteborgsvagen 30
Kungsbacka, S 43424
SE
[phone] fax: [phone]

Record expires on 15-Jan-2011.
Record created on 14-Jan-1997.
Database last updated on 1-Oct-2008 15:26:42 EDT.


Britt

Post by Julie Berk
I would guess POD has www.modestyblaise.com and might not mind having a
fan area. I'll ask his son and grandson on the 11th.

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:01:32 -0700

Post by Stray Taoist
I would be be someone (I don't mind doing it) registering a new
domain, and controlling the list from there (ad free, no need to use
yahoo et al, I have ran lists using various mailing software for

Hm.... www.modestyblaise.de is gone
as is www.modestyblaise.com
www.modestyblaise.eu
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.info
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.org is still free :-)

Post by Stray Taoist
years, have written some myself...) Plus it would be totally private,
no outside spam, subscribers only, and lots of us could be admins.
The headers issue is easy, though. *If* we had access to the box.

central computer administration and one admin who can control the
mailinglist by sending e-mail to it.
If Thomas does not find the time but still would like to offer the list
it would be an option to pass on admin privileges. That would also
allow to change the Reply-To behaviour etc.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the
group, expanding the fanbase.

This is true, and a benefit over the list being hosted on someone's server.

Registering one of the modestyblaise domains (.org, .es, .nl .cc, .tv
-- no forget that last) might also atract attention. Others who are
running MB stuff on websites already might combine efforts in that
central place. Googlelogic says having a domain name equal to a search
term equals high ranking.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use
forums. It's just another website.

With the typical traffic on this list -- 1-2 mails/week, I would not
visit a forum daily. If I'm not visiting daily I'll sooner or later
visit not at all.
On the mailing list I get occasionally a mail in the MB folder and am
happy to get to read something about our favorite heroine.
A forum with optional mails would be quite helpful there. Preferably in
full text or at least From & subject of the new posting.
K.-H.
PS: Are you by any chance a fan of Bill Sienkiewicz?
if these wouldn't be this damn expensive....
http://www.billsienkiewiczart.com/gallery.asp?sc=BSST1&afs=T

[Alex Frazer-Harrison]

Hi all

Looks like a cyber-squatter. Very very few "originators" actually own their
own domain names. Sometimes the name gets picked up by a fan
(www.billhaley.com being an example I know). Other times squatters get it.
And I've seen a few cases where you type in www.NAMEOFINTEREST.com and you
get a porn site.

Has anyone checked Modestyblaise.org or Modestyblaise.co.uk? I doubt POD or
his family have any connection with those either, but you never know.

I just checked: the ORG site is cybersquatted. The Co.Uk site is the
official website of the rock band Modesty Blaise.

Cheers!

Alex

Post by Britt Nicolaisen
Whois Record
Noxe AB
Box 10419
Kungsbacka 43424
SE
Domain Name: MODESTYBLAISE.COM
Schumacher, Hans
Noxe AB
G a Goteborgsvagen 30
Kungsbacka, S 43424
SE
[phone] fax: [phone]
Record expires on 15-Jan-2011.
Record created on 14-Jan-1997.
Database last updated on 1-Oct-2008 15:26:42 EDT.
Britt

Post by Julie Berk
I would guess POD has www.modestyblaise.com and might not mind having a
fan area. I'll ask his son and grandson on the 11th.

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:01:32 -0700

Post by Stray Taoist
I would be be someone (I don't mind doing it) registering a new
domain, and controlling the list from there (ad free, no need to use
yahoo et al, I have ran lists using various mailing software for

Hm.... www.modestyblaise.de is gone
as is www.modestyblaise.com
www.modestyblaise.eu
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.info
www.modestyblaise.net
www.modestyblaise.org is still free :-)

Post by Stray Taoist
years, have written some myself...) Plus it would be totally private,
no outside spam, subscribers only, and lots of us could be admins.
The headers issue is easy, though. *If* we had access to the box.

central computer administration and one admin who can control the
mailinglist by sending e-mail to it.
If Thomas does not find the time but still would like to offer the list
it would be an option to pass on admin privileges. That would also
allow to change the Reply-To behaviour etc.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Also, a Yahoo/MSN presence would perhaps attract newcomers to the
group, expanding the fanbase.

This is true, and a benefit over the list being hosted on someone's server.

Registering one of the modestyblaise domains (.org, .es, .nl .cc, .tv
-- no forget that last) might also atract attention. Others who are
running MB stuff on websites already might combine efforts in that
central place. Googlelogic says having a domain name equal to a search
term equals high ranking.

Post by Stray Taoist

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I am curious at the comments made by some that they can't use
forums. It's just another website.

With the typical traffic on this list -- 1-2 mails/week, I would not
visit a forum daily. If I'm not visiting daily I'll sooner or later
visit not at all.
On the mailing list I get occasionally a mail in the MB folder and am
happy to get to read something about our favorite heroine.
A forum with optional mails would be quite helpful there. Preferably in
full text or at least From & subject of the new posting.
K.-H.
PS: Are you by any chance a fan of Bill Sienkiewicz?
if these wouldn't be this damn expensive....
http://www.billsienkiewiczart.com/gallery.asp?sc=BSST1&afs=T

[Britt Nicolaisen]

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I just checked: the ORG site is cybersquatted. The Co.Uk site is the
official website of the rock band Modesty Blaise.
Cheers!
Alex

Well, actually i registered the .org just a couple of days ago. Just
parked it untill I decide how to use it - I thought maybe we (us
listmembers) could find some use for it. I am not a big fan of the forum
idea though as I prefer to receive emails instead of actively visiting a
forum. But if that is what we decide to do, I guess I could set up a
forum at this domain.

Do we have other website needs? Somebody mentioned posting pictures...
other things?

Suggestions?

[Alex Frazer-Harrison]

Hi Britt

My apologies for referring to it as cybersquatting. You might want to
consider putting a place holder up (maybe just a notice like, "coming soon")
because most cybersquatters use those generic "search engine"-style
placeholder pages.

Cheers!

Alex

Post by Britt Nicolaisen

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I just checked: the ORG site is cybersquatted. The Co.Uk site is the
official website of the rock band Modesty Blaise.
Cheers!
Alex

Well, actually i registered the .org just a couple of days ago. Just
parked it untill I decide how to use it - I thought maybe we (us
listmembers) could find some use for it. I am not a big fan of the forum
idea though as I prefer to receive emails instead of actively visiting a
forum. But if that is what we decide to do, I guess I could set up a
forum at this domain.
Do we have other website needs? Somebody mentioned posting pictures...
other things?
Suggestions?

[Britt Nicolaisen]

As I look into it now I see that I didn't even park it - havent't done
anything about it yet, so I guess my registrar put that page up.

I will put a coming soon placeholder up!

All the best,
Britt

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
Hi Britt
My apologies for referring to it as cybersquatting. You might want to
consider putting a place holder up (maybe just a notice like, "coming soon")
because most cybersquatters use those generic "search engine"-style
placeholder pages.
Cheers!
Alex

Post by Britt Nicolaisen

Post by Alex Frazer-Harrison
I just checked: the ORG site is cybersquatted. The Co.Uk site is the
official website of the rock band Modesty Blaise.
Cheers!
Alex

Well, actually i registered the .org just a couple of days ago. Just
parked it untill I decide how to use it - I thought maybe we (us
listmembers) could find some use for it. I am not a big fan of the forum
idea though as I prefer to receive emails instead of actively visiting a
forum. But if that is what we decide to do, I guess I could set up a
forum at this domain.
Do we have other website needs? Somebody mentioned posting pictures...
other things?
Suggestions?

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 19:16:47 +0100

Post by Julie Berk
I would guess POD has www.modestyblaise.com and might not mind having
a fan area. I'll ask his son and grandson on the 11th.

Hm.. guess not -- unless they are in the business of "network
solutions". On the other hand it does look like a rudimentary site of a
cyber-squatter.

Hm... registered by somebody in Sweden. Maybe simply a fan?

Domain Name: MODESTYBLAISE.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Schumacher, Hans ***@NOXE.SE
Noxe AB
G a Goteborgsvagen 30
Kungsbacka, S 43424
SE
[phone] fax: [phone]


http://www.modestyblaise.de/ shows an MB image -- but intends to sell
fashion sometime in the future.

Hm.. lady in Berlin.

[Holder]
Type: PERSON
Name: Victoria Roos
Address: Islaendische Str. 17
Pcode: 10439
City: Berlin
Country: DE



K.-H.

[Alex Frazer-Harrison]

Modestyblaise.net has been squatted, too..

Alex

Post by Karl-Heinz Herrmann
On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 19:16:47 +0100

Post by Julie Berk
I would guess POD has www.modestyblaise.com and might not mind having
a fan area. I'll ask his son and grandson on the 11th.

Hm.. guess not -- unless they are in the business of "network
solutions". On the other hand it does look like a rudimentary site of a
cyber-squatter.
Hm... registered by somebody in Sweden. Maybe simply a fan?
Domain Name: MODESTYBLAISE.COM
Noxe AB
G a Goteborgsvagen 30
Kungsbacka, S 43424
SE
[phone] fax: [phone]
http://www.modestyblaise.de/ shows an MB image -- but intends to sell
fashion sometime in the future.
Hm.. lady in Berlin.
[Holder]
Type: PERSON
Name: Victoria Roos
Address: Islaendische Str. 17
Pcode: 10439
City: Berlin
Country: DE
K.-H.

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:09:23 +0000

Could you please get me taken off this mailing list? or ask the
moderator to do so, It's filling up my inbox!
many thanks

many sorries -- list moderator seems just now not available.

Either you unsubscribe yourself by sending an E-mail with from set to
the adress under which you subscribed (might be
***@ntlworld.com )

to mb-***@ifi.uio.no
subject: unsubscribe


or you would have to provide me with your password which should have
been sent to you just 1 minute ago.


K.-h.

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

Hi,

let me add to this unsubscribe hints:

On the page:
http://ifi-lists.uio.no/mailman/listinfo/***@ifi.uio.no

At the very bottom is a text field. Enter your subscription e-mail
address (the address under which you receive the list-mails).

click the button "edit options"

On that page you can set some options, unsubscribe *and* ask the
list-software to send you back your password if you forgot it.


check that password email, enter password and click unsubscribe button
to unsubscribe.


Alternatively the mail to mb-request as briefly explained in the
earlier mail. That should work even without password IF you send the
unsubscribe-mail from the same email address you subscribed with.


K.-H.

[a***@sci.fi]

Post by Michael Robertson
I vote for the list.

Likewise.

Vesa Lehtinen
Finland

[Tikkanen Mika]

BTW is there anyone who knows how many list members we are in total?

Mika

[Karl-Heinz Herrmann]

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT)

Forgot to say: I've also tried other sneaky ways of finding out how

Hm... I tried to get that information from the list-software -- but its
admin only information -- no go.

But I got a sneaky idea of my own......


K.-H.

[Helen Evans]

Oops sorry, usually people are directed to the map from my website, which
is where I tell them the password, which is pahlavi.

Also, for anyone who was requested audio files of the radio plays, I
can't remember if I announced or not, but the links that had stopped
working are back up: please let me know if you ever encounter any problems
downloading anything from the site.
Thanks!
Helen
__________________________
Hi,

The map asks me for a password. do you have it?

regards from sweden
Jorma

[Julie Berk]

hmm, not pas l'avis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Helen Evans" <***@sevatech.com>
To: "Jorma Lindgren" <***@jorma.se>
Cc: <***@ifi.uio.no>
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 8:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MB] Number of list members

Post by Helen Evans
Oops sorry, usually people are directed to the map from my website, which
is where I tell them the password, which is pahlavi.
Also, for anyone who was requested audio files of the radio plays, I
can't remember if I announced or not, but the links that had stopped
working are back up: please let me know if you ever encounter any problems
downloading anything from the site.
Thanks!
Helen
__________________________
Hi,
The map asks me for a password. do you have it?
regards from sweden
Jorma

[n***@mindspring.com]

random responses to several threads (couldn't do that in a forum...)

I must echo a fellow list-er; I don't go to forums that frequently, and prefer e-mails and a private list to a forum.

I so wish I were able to attend the 10/11 walk.

I put myself on the map (SO COOL!!!) but have yet to respond to the 'how I found Modesty thread' (will do so) -- I may get lazy and repost an old response, as I can find all mine using search of Google groups on my name. Did not follow the conversation about archives well, but it seems that my postings to the list in the 90s are still retrievable that way...

A more substantive comment for the list later...

R. Michelle Green

[n***@mindspring.com]

I just posted this on the forum -- the rss idea is the only hook for me with the forum, and I don't even know if that's a) possible or b) possible for this forum...

Michelle



thumbs down on the forum

Post by nakadai@ Today at 10:09 am
I can't see where to vote either. I prefer the list. As it is, we are already fragmented -- there are several Facebook groups now as well. I think we are too small a niche to support multiple communications methods.

I favor push to get as well (now maybe if the forum had some sort of RSS feed, so I knew when new posts came?...)

R. Michelle Green
(I will send this to the list as well)