[MB] Crikey!

[P Woods, Client Services]

The new issue of Crikey!:

<http://www.bookpalace.com/acatalog/info_CRIKEY09.html>

features Modesty on the cover, and an interview with Badia Romero. Has
anyone here read it yet?

Cheers,

Paul

*************************************************************
Paul Woods,
Faculty Librarian (Social Sciences & Law);
Subject Librarian for EFM, Sociology, Politics, SACHS;
University of Bristol Information Services,
Arts & Social Sciences Library,
Tyndall Avenue,
Bristol BS8 1TJ.

Tel.: [phone] (ext.) 88029 (int.) Fax: [phone]
E-mail: ***@bris.ac.uk
Home Page: http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~lipw/paulhome.htm

"Thinking young and growing older is no sin"
- Carole King / Gerry Goffin
************************************************************

[Helen Evans]

A copy is supposed to be winging its way to me, but it seems to have
gone surface rather than airmail, because I haven't got it yet... but
am looking forward to reading it!
Helen

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:15 AM, P Woods, Client Services

Post by P Woods, Client Services
<http://www.bookpalace.com/acatalog/info_CRIKEY09.html>
features Modesty on the cover, and an interview with Badia Romero.  Has anyone here read it yet?
Cheers,
Paul

[a***@dsl.pipex.com]

Ah, Romero. The worst artist ever to draw Modesty.
If PO'D's writing weren't so good I would never willingly read a strip drawn by Romero.
I will probably read the Crikey interview (if I've got nothing better to do one day).

Best,
Guy

Post by P Woods, Client Services
<http://www.bookpalace.com/acatalog/info_CRIKEY09.html>
features Modesty on the cover, and an interview with Badia Romero. Has
anyone here read it yet?
Cheers,
Paul
*************************************************************
Paul Woods,
Faculty Librarian (Social Sciences & Law);
Subject Librarian for EFM, Sociology, Politics, SACHS;
University of Bristol Information Services,
Arts & Social Sciences Library,
Tyndall Avenue,
Bristol BS8 1TJ.
Tel.: [phone] (ext.) 88029 (int.) Fax: [phone]
Home Page: http://eis.bris.ac.uk/~lipw/paulhome.htm
"Thinking young and growing older is no sin"
- Carole King / Gerry Goffin
************************************************************

[Helen Evans]

Interesting to hear some men commenting on Romero's clothing choices
for Modesty, as the way Romero draws her clothing (or lack thereof)
has always irritated me -- in the books POD is so specific about
Modesty's clothing. She not only has superb taste, but when she's on a
caper she dresses PRACTICALLY, with weapons hidden throughout her
clothing -- not in some plunging-neckline outfit that conveniently
falls to tatters as the story progresses!

Helen

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:24 AM, P Woods, Client Services

Post by a***@dsl.pipex.com
Ah, Romero. The worst artist ever to draw Modesty.
If PO'D's writing weren't so good I would never willingly read a strip
drawn by Romero. I will probably read the Crikey interview (if I've got
nothing better to do one day).
Best,
Guy

[Ray Colina]

Well for me I was introduced to Modesty during Romero's run on the strip
and as a result his style tends to be the way I picture Modesty. I have
since gone back and read the Holdaway stuff too, and I'll admit he did
better with the clothing, though he wasn't immune from the occasional
plunging neck line. But mostly I like the way Romero's Modesty looked
over Holdaway's, again probably a factor for how I was introduced to the
character.

Post by Helen Evans
Interesting to hear some men commenting on Romero's clothing choices
for Modesty, as the way Romero draws her clothing (or lack thereof)
has always irritated me -- in the books POD is so specific about
Modesty's clothing. She not only has superb taste, but when she's on a
caper she dresses PRACTICALLY, with weapons hidden throughout her
clothing -- not in some plunging-neckline outfit that conveniently
falls to tatters as the story progresses!
Helen
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:24 AM, P Woods, Client Services

Post by a***@dsl.pipex.com
Ah, Romero. The worst artist ever to draw Modesty.
If PO'D's writing weren't so good I would never willingly read a strip
drawn by Romero. I will probably read the Crikey interview (if I've got
nothing better to do one day).
Best,
Guy

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[a***@dsl.pipex.com]

OMG!!! (as the young people say) I'd forgotten the frilly clothing!
AAAAAAAAAAAArgh!!!
and indeed "Crikey!"
You are so right, Paul... horrible!

And yes, I'm sure Romero's chief (only?) virtue was reliability.
An artist from the school of "Do you want it good or do want it Tuesday?"
("And by the way, I only do the latter")

Strangely, though, I quite like Colvin. Uninspired, perhaps, but always competent...
never plumbing the depths Romero did.

Best,
Guy

Post by a***@dsl.pipex.com
Ah, Romero. The worst artist ever to draw Modesty.
If PO'D's writing weren't so good I would never willingly read a strip
drawn by Romero. I will probably read the Crikey interview (if I've got
nothing better to do one day).
Best,
Guy

I tend to agree with you, Guy - though N. Colvin runs a close second
(because of his being flat an uninteresting).
Romero's Modesty is way too "girly", her poses no longer natural, the fight
sequences never flowing like Holdaway's. This is apparent straight away
from the changeover strips in The Warlords of Phoenix. Additionally, the
clothes he puts on her are always way too ornate and frilly compared with
Holdaway's classic style. Romero has never appealed to me - but I guess Mr
O'Donnell found him a reliable artist to work with over many years.
Paul

[Helen Evans]

this smacks to of a choice based on more than just reliability, as they were willing to deal with a language barrier to work with Romero.

Well, that and/or the fact they had to look around and make a choice *quickly*.
I wonder if this played a bigger part than those involved remember now.

OMG!!! (as the young people say) I'd forgotten the frilly clothing!

Yes, one drawing stands out in my mind in particular, of Modesty
wearing a horrendous drapey blouse with a huge frilly collar, a la
Queen Elizabeth but lower-cut. *shudder* Wish I could have that image
removed from my memory bank.

And yes, I'm sure Romero's chief (only?) virtue was reliability.

Perhaps reliable in terms of deadlines, but IMO his Modesty was *not*
at all consistent. Not only did she change a great deal over the
years, but she'd often change considerably within a story.

Helen

[Anna Toss]

To me, the clothes aren't the most disturbing thing, but all the ways
Romero thought up to get them off. Romeros Modesty is probably the
cleanest heroine in the world, with all the showers and impromptu
baths she takes. Can't go near a creek or lake without a skinny-dip.

/Anna

Post by Helen Evans

this smacks to of a choice based on more than just reliability, as they were willing to deal with a language barrier to work with Romero.

Well, that and/or the fact they had to look around and make a choice *quickly*.
I wonder if this played a bigger part than those involved remember now.

OMG!!! (as the young people say) I'd forgotten the frilly clothing!

 Yes, one drawing stands out in my mind in particular, of Modesty
wearing a horrendous drapey blouse with a huge frilly collar, a la
Queen Elizabeth but lower-cut. *shudder*  Wish I could have that image
removed from my memory bank.

And yes, I'm sure Romero's chief (only?) virtue was reliability.

Perhaps reliable in terms of deadlines, but IMO his Modesty was *not*
at all consistent. Not only did she change a great deal over the
years, but she'd often change considerably within a story.
Helen

[John Blair]

Well, me - I'm a big fan of the naked Modesty in the creek.
One of the most remarkable, anachronistic features of The books is that they
were very very sex-positive - none of the S&M, misogynist overtones of the
Bond books from the same era, and wonderfully feminist in all dimensions,
including their sexuality. Not feminist in the gruesome Andrea Dworkin way,
but feminist in the Wendy McElroy way.
The comics are more cartoon-like than the books, by construction, and thus
Modesty and Willie are portrayed in a cartoon-like way - they're 7 feet
tall, and their proportions are improbable. But that's ok too.
From the reasoned perspective of a 16-year old male, a busty beautiful
Modesty emerging from the bath is a very happy memory. I will defend her to
the last.

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:54:26 +0200
Subject: Re: [MB] Crikey!
To me, the clothes aren't the most disturbing thing, but all the ways
Romero thought up to get them off. Romeros Modesty is probably the
cleanest heroine in the world, with all the showers and impromptu
baths she takes. Can't go near a creek or lake without a skinny-dip.
/Anna

Post by Helen Evans

this smacks to of a choice based on more than just reliability, as they
were willing to deal with a language barrier to work with Romero.

Well, that and/or the fact they had to look around and make a choice *quickly*.
I wonder if this played a bigger part than those involved remember now.

OMG!!! (as the young people say) I'd forgotten the frilly clothing!

 Yes, one drawing stands out in my mind in particular, of Modesty
wearing a horrendous drapey blouse with a huge frilly collar, a la
Queen Elizabeth but lower-cut. *shudder*  Wish I could have that image
removed from my memory bank.

And yes, I'm sure Romero's chief (only?) virtue was reliability.

Perhaps reliable in terms of deadlines, but IMO his Modesty was *not*
at all consistent. Not only did she change a great deal over the
years, but she'd often change considerably within a story.
Helen

[Helen Evans]

Post by John Blair
From the reasoned perspective of a 16-year old male, a busty beautiful
Modesty emerging from the bath is a very happy memory. I will defend her to
the last.

Er, I think that's defending Romero... LOL...
I guess the main reason I prefer Holdaway to Romero is that Romero
does seem to be deliberately drawing for a young male audience,
whereas Holdaway didn't seem to be pandering to any particular market.

Helen

[John Blair]

Absolutely defending Romero - I used the phrase 'defend her' because I think
that MB would have approved.
I would argue that the term 'pandering' is an unfair pejorative.
Was late-80's Madonna 'pandering'? Maybe, maybe not. I think she was
aggressively sex-positive, feminist, and broadly great. But regardless, I
imagine that she believed that she was appealing to her whole audience, not
just to male fans of pointy bras.
If I were POD, I'd be proud that I'd created a character who was not only
timelessly dangerous, but also timelessly sexy. And happily naked whenever
possible ... :)

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:20:00 -0700
Subject: Re: [MB] Crikey!

Post by John Blair
From the reasoned perspective of a 16-year old male, a busty beautiful
Modesty emerging from the bath is a very happy memory. I will defend her to
the last.

Er, I think that's defending Romero... LOL...
I guess the main reason I prefer Holdaway to Romero is that Romero
does seem to be deliberately drawing for a young male audience,
whereas Holdaway didn't seem to be pandering to any particular market.
Helen

[Paul Kerry]

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Blair" <***@jblair.net>
To: <***@ifi.uio.no>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MB] Crikey!

Post by John Blair
Absolutely defending Romero - I used the phrase 'defend her' because I think
that MB would have approved.
I would argue that the term 'pandering' is an unfair pejorative.

I agree. Romero's art was quite sexy but P O'D didn't object and neither do
I. Holdaway was good, certainly, but maybe Peter wanted an artist with his
own style, not a second rate copy of Holdaway. Just a thought.

Paul

[Holger Haase]

Don't know what I pressed, but that message shoiuld have gone to the
whole group.

Must admit I am surprised to hear so much Romero bashing. Yep, he may
have been titillating, but he sure as hell titillated me into reading
the comics and then the books. So here's another 16 year old (or
probably closer a 14 year old) whose life was positively shattered by
the Romero version of Modesty.

Post by Helen Evans

Post by John Blair
From the reasoned perspective of a 16-year old male, a busty beautiful
Modesty emerging from the bath is a very happy memory. I will defend her to
the last.

Er, I think that's defending Romero... LOL...
I guess the main reason I prefer Holdaway to Romero is that Romero
does seem to be deliberately drawing for a young male audience,
whereas Holdaway didn't seem to be pandering to any particular market.
Helen

--
Holger

[Helen Evans]

And good thing she's so rich, what with her clothes constantly falling
to shreds and needing to be replaced. Really, you'd think she'd have
invested in stronger fabrics...
Helen

Post by Anna Toss
To me, the clothes aren't the most disturbing thing, but all the ways
Romero thought up to get them off. Romeros Modesty is probably the
cleanest heroine in the world, with all the showers and impromptu
baths she takes. Can't go near a creek or lake without a skinny-dip.

[P Woods, Client Services]

Post by Anna Toss
Romeros Modesty is probably the
cleanest heroine in the world, with all the showers and impromptu
baths she takes. Can't go near a creek or lake without a skinny-dip.

I think that may be something to do with Mr O'Donnell's skill as a strip
writer (pun not really intended), not just the whim of the artist. He was
aware that a bit of bare flesh would boost interest in a daily strip, and
showed this tendency in the work he produced for the the tabloid Daily
Mirror in the fifties - Garth and (the Holdaway-illustrated) Romeo Brown.
Both of those frequently had ladies in different states of undress, while
the male heroes remained clad. (I particularly remember an unsubtle
incident in a Garth story, where Garth and a humanoid alien heroine,
escaping from pursuit, swam a lake which had dissolving qualities. The
lady was left barenekkid, having been wearing fabric, but Garth's modesty
was spared because he had been wearing animal skin briefs!) Romeo (an inept
private eye) frequently found that his glamorous lady clients lost all
their clothing in the course of their adventures with him - an not
intentionally, on his part.

And to be fair, many of the times that Modesty showers (after a workout) or
takes a skinnydip, Willie is also shown participating. In the interest of
male fans Modesty displays little modesty; but in the interest of public
decency, Willie displays no willie at all!

Paul

[Terry Pearson]

Post by P Woods, Client Services
And to be fair, many of the times that Modesty showers (after a
workout) or takes a skinnydip, Willie is also shown participating. In
the interest of male fans Modesty displays little modesty; but in the
interest of public decency, Willie displays no willie at all!

As I recall, in "In the beginning" the strip book the name Modesty was
given to her (?by Lob) with some sense of irony wasn't it? But funnily
enough after all these years of reading MB, I have never noticed the
connection between Willie and willie, and never thought about what
conscious choice (if any) was applied in selecting that name. I have
taken it very much at face value, without considering any possible
double entendre.

As a person who mostly reads the novels rather than the strip, I don't
express an opinion on the quality of the work of any of the artists, but
on the subject of double entendre, perhaps it is just that Romero takes
the idea of illustrating a "strip" to its logical conclusion!
Cheers
Terry
(PS: Best wishes to all the list from Australia, where just for a few
precious weeks, our country has been neither burning nor flooding....)

[Helen Evans]

The same could be said for Haldaway, in fact, despite his many virtues as an artist, I found his look for Modesty to be far more inconstant

that Romero's. In one panel she'd be this stunning beauty, in an other
more average looking, and other times looking almost homely.

Hm, now that I think about it, you're right... I wonder why they had
such a hard time with consistency? I thought Romero's Willie was quite
inconsistent too; would have to flip back through some strips to see
if Holdaway struggled with that also.

If people do send in their 'best of' and 'worst of' for each artists,
it will be fun to compare!
Helen